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 CaribbeanChoice : General Discussion : News, Current Events & Politics
Message Icon Topic: U.S. Role in Haiti Post Reply Post New Topic
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Poll Question #27: Should the US have an increase
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Scott
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Quote Scott Replybullet Topic: U.S. Role in Haiti
    Posted: 07 Mar 2004 at 5:29am
Currently the U.S. has troops in Haiti, originally sent to protect U.S. Citizens and interests there.  Should the U.S. have an increased role in restoring democracy in Haiti, which may include sending more troops?
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Quote Joseph Replybullet Posted: 08 Mar 2004 at 1:14am
Probably not, It is a Caribbean Affair and as such should be dealt with by the countries of the Caribbean.
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Quote creol_buay Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2004 at 1:27pm

I agree with Joseph.  The US will never learn, look at what's happening in Iraq.  They will not learn or stop putting ther nose where it is not wanted or needed until all the countries get togehter and start revolting against their actions and involvement in foreign issues. Telling people what they should do and try to force shanges or else..

Ask bush how he would feel if a country would send troop to overtrow him and tell them how to run their country.  It is not a nice feeiling, but like I said time ticks as does patience.  It has started with the terrorist and will be growing to include many other countries that the US is trying to push around.

These are my feelings regarding this and other US issues

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Quote C.C. Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2004 at 10:35pm

Agreed.

Let Haiti manage itself. It'll do just fine.

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Quote Duck Sauce Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2004 at 6:20pm

Quite frankly, they haven't been doing "just fine," which is what got us in this position in the first place.  But even if the U.S. were to step-in and set-up a democracy and get them going, the people have to embrace it, otherwise they will just go back to violence and oppression once again.

The people of Haiti, as a whole, must embrace democracy and non-violent change, otherwise they are doomed to repeat this little episode.

"One person can make a difference, one person can change the world, but you must choose to do so. You must make the future or others will make it for you." -J. Michael Straczynski
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Quote jaetienne Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 1:44pm
Haiti is able to manage itself.
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Quote scrolljoe Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 3:44am

 

Time and history will tell  of the thread bare efficacy of the Gun Boat Diplomacy so much used by the US in the scores of military interventions into other peoples' countries under the pretext of worn statement: " to protect the lives of american citizens and interests." One day the Mouse Will Roar...and it will no longer be life imitating art...it will be reality. A poignant fact is that I can't give you a better gift than the one I've got...what America has is democracy on paper..the lines of which are constantly shifting to suite it's own whims and fancies. Pax Americana will not succeed. Having said that , I think that in specific relation to Haiti what the Haitians need to do is return to that noble place in history as the first free Black Republic in this hemisphere and build on the legacy left by their original Heros.The question now rises : will America sit idly by and allow this sleeping Black Giant to succeed ?...I think not.

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Quote Scott Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 10:22am

Originally posted by scrolljoe

The question now rises : will America sit idly by and allow this sleeping Black Giant to succeed ?...I think not.

Why not?  I would think that the U.S. has a vested interest in a democratic republic as opposed to a dictatorship or an unstable regime.  The only way the U.S. is going to intervene is if things get out of control, like they have been in the past.  The only reason why the U.S. goes over there and intervenes is because it effects the security of the U.S.  If Haiti had a stable government, the U.S. would have no need or inclination to step in. 

And besides, a stable prosperous Haiti is something the U.S. would benefit from economically.  Remember, the U.S. is all about trade.  Why?  Because trade creates wealth... for both trading partners.

I don't see why it would be in the best interest for the U.S. to prevent Haiti from succeeding, actually quite the opposite. 

Now, the U.S. might not like certain leaders, but that is not the same as the U.S. not wanting Haiti to succeed.  Actually, part of the reason why the U.S. intervenes is because the U.S. would rather have a prosperous democratic Haiti.



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Quote scrolljoe Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:30am

 

Welcome to the 21st century,Scott. Your overly simplistic and sanitized response belong to another era. Events on the world stage point to the fact that the system in vogue is one whereby the poor will stay poorer and the rich , richer. To enforce this there is no such thing as bilateral gains. Simply put : I gain ..you lose. America's hegemony is nothing less that a wart on the lower part of the World's Anatomy.

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Quote Scott Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 8:18am

Yes, the poor stay poor and the rich get richer?  Why?  Education and resources.  If you have education and resources, it is very easy to make more money.  Without education and resources, it is very difficult to make money.  Most of the third world lacks those two vital components.  It has nothing to do with the first world trying to screw the third world, it has everything to do with local government policies and corruption.

Every notice that in the third world, less than 1% of the population have all the wealth?  And that upper 1% tends to control everything including the government.  That has nothing to do with the U.S. and everything to do with your leaders, who love to blame the U.S. for their own failed policies, I might add.

Most countries, the U.S. included, do what is in their best interest.  It is not in the best interest of the U.S. for Haiti to fall apart.  If Haiti is poor and violent, how is the U.S. going to benefit?  They are not.  The U.S. benefits by trading, and poor people can't buy anything.

Its the same within the U.S.  Did you know that in Texas if you are unemployed, the state will train you for free and help you find a job?  Why?  Because it is in the best interest of the state that people are not poor.  Poor people cause problems.  Poor people are more tempted to commit crimes since they have little or nothing to lose.  Poor people are more likely to abuse their children and spouse.  Poor people don't pay much taxes.  Poor people are more likely to drop out of school or commit suicide.  Poor people don't buy things very much, producing little wealth for the economy.

The biggest difference between the rich and the poor countries is the fact that the leaders of the rich countries know how to create wealth, while the leaders of the poor countries only know how to horde someone else's wealth and do not create any new wealth on their own.

Wealth is created by trade.  The more trade there is, the more wealth is created.  I'll give you my famous example:

Lets say that there are only 10 people in the world and only $100 in existance.  In many countries it would look like this: One person has $91 and the rest have $1 each.  Now, the leaders of the poor countries are all trying to get the $1 from each of the other people so that they could have all $100 in existance.  But thinking that way doesn't create wealth. 

Here's how you create wealth: Let's say that there is $100 in the whole world and only ten people.  One person has all $100 of the money.  He takes his $100 and buys $100 worth of products and services from the second guy.  Now the first guy has $100 worth of goods, and the second guy has $100 cash.  The second guy then buys $100 worth of goods from the third guy.  And the third guy buys $100 worth of goods from the fourth guy.  And on and on until the money is back where is started.  Now, how much money is in that system?  No, its not $100.  It's $1,000!  Why?  Because every single person has earned $100 and has acquired $100 worth of products and services.

Wealth is created by trade.  The more money moves around, the more wealth there is.  Rich people and rich nations know that.  Poor countries and poor people do not.

THAT is why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.  Especially when you consider that in poor countries the leaders horde all the resources preventing other smarter people from creating new wealth.

Most of the "blame it on the rich countries" propaganda comes from the very people who are stealing and hording all the money.  It's a way they can shift the blame away from themselves.

I'm not saying that their aren't people in the U.S. who will screw you over.  Believe me, there are.  But they have the same mentality about wealth that most third world leaders do.

The U.S. installs democracy and a free market where ever it can.  Why?  Well, one reason is because some of us actually care, and secondly is because a democratic, stable trade partner is worth more than an unstable dictatorship who could turn against us at any time and don't have anything to trade.

Actually, the "I gain... you lose" mentality is the one that belongs in another era.  Sadly its one that is very much alive in the third world, but thank God is starting to go away in the first world.  It truly is the difference between creatiing wealth and just transferring it around or hording it.

Like I said, rich nations know how to create wealth.  Poor nations (or mostly their leaders) don't understand how to do that yet.

The ONLY way poor countries will ever become rich is if their leaders (government and business) change their mentality about wealth.  They are the ones who set the policies and control the money.  They do business with people like them and attract foreign business partners of the same mindset.  If they are corrupt and greedy, they will attract foreign companies who are the same.  If they take care of their people and only do business with foreign companies that do the same, then corrupt and greedy businesses will either be forced to go elsewhere or at least give something back to the community.

That is the only way.  Your leaders can determine who does business in your country and who does not.  Its your leaders who horde all the profits giving little or nothing back to the people.  They like to blame it on foreigners, but quite frankly, the countries leaders are to blame.

It has to start at the top.  Until then, you are right.  The poorer will get poorer?  Why?  Because your leaders are taking all the money from like minded businesses and not sharing it with the community.



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