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 CaribbeanChoice : General Discussion : News, Current Events & Politics
Message Icon Topic: U.S. Role in Haiti Post Reply Post New Topic
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Poll Question #27: Should the US have an increase
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10 [58.82%]
1 [5.88%]
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Scott
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Quote Scott Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:34am

By the way, I am not saying that your leaders are bad and ours are good (although some are, both first world and third world).  What I am saying is that there is a different mentality that creates wealth vs. hordes it, and that the people who have the biggest influence on the economy know how wealth is created in first world countries.

Example: The Fed that controls interest rates in the U.S.  They know how the economy works enough to be able to tweak it to keep us out of a depression and to insure that the money still flows.

Example: Mr. Ford who did something radically different than other companies at the time: he paid his employees enough money to actually buy one of his cars.  He was smart.  He sold many more cars than he could have otherwise and became rich.

Example: State Governments have programs to help people in need and to train people to get new jobs.

Example: U.S. companies give back to the community.  Some do it because they care and some do it because they want us to think they care and some do it for the tax write off, but either way billions of dollars get spent on community programs that benefit the citizens.

Example: The U.S. government and its citizens gives billions in aid to countries around the world when they don't have to.  Many people giving are average working people like you and me.  They give because they care.

What we need is more of this.  That is what creates wealth and betters the world.



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Quote scrolljoe Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 1:04pm

 


It was my intention to give a broad response to your "Letter to the Third
World
" but thought it might be better to pick your arguements apart......
paragraph for paragraph....and before I do ..be assured that I hold no
ill will towards the American People...my beef is with the Movers and
Shapers of Policy in Washington who have so obfuscated some 300 million
people into believing the unbelievable.

I guess it may come as a surprise to you to learn the the bulk of the
world's natural resources now lie in the Third world..you have long
exploited and depleted yours. Also the third world is not bereft of
educated people..far from being the fact. Au contraire.. we produce
better educated people for less money...just ask the Board of Ed of the
State of Texas or any other Metropolitan School Board . What is to be
borne in mind is the fact that unashamedly and most immorally the so
called Developed World lure these educated people away to make sure that
their home countries are depleted of brilliant minds. While I may not
describe that as the First World screwing the Third World I will say that
it's part of the game plan of poverty and nothing to do with corruption.

Wonder if it has ever occured to you that 5% of the population owns 70%
of the wealth and that the richest 1% of the population now owns as much
wealth as the bottom 95% of all Americans combined of the population..and
that many of the so called failed policies of third world leaders are
failures because they fail to dance to the tune of the developed world
and so what is perceived as ther part in the 'Blame Game' happens to be no
more than expressing the truth.Tell me about EQUITY !


My knowledge of Mexico is that it is POOR and Sickeningly Violent. Why
doesn't the US invade Mexico and stamp its brand of Democracy. It's just
there..right across the border.Guess you can't see the Mexican Beam but
Haitian mote way across the sea is visible.What hypocracy ! The truth of
the matter is that Mexico 'cow tongues' to the US and so US Corporations
have a field day while the average chicano makes do with his rice and
beans.Their leaders don't rock the economic boat.And by the way..while
you're on it..give China a thought.

My friend, be assured that governments the world over will retrain their
workers to the best of their available ability.Retraining of unwanted
skills is not an American Thing.

There are holes and pockets in Your Famous Example.In today's real world
this is the way wealth is created ..retained and siphoned away from small
countries : An American corporation X manufactures a lathe Y that will make
30 pieces of Z per hour. The worker is paid $80.00 perday and produces
240 pieces of Z each sold for $10.00. Assuming that $1000.00 go for
factory space, electricity , raw materials, wages, health insurance, taxes
etc. then with the sale of 240 Zs there is a gross of $2400.00 and a net
profit of $1400.00. Now check this out : the selfsame Corporation X shuts
down the company in the US and relocates to the third world where it sets
up shop with a demanded and sanctioned Tax holiday by the State Department
meaning that for 5 to 10 years nothing enters the coffers of the local
treasury as corporate tax. The lathe now turns out 350 pieces a day because
the local worker has no union clout and he's being paid the equivalent of
10 US dollars per day. The scenario goes further. All 350 pieces are
shipped out to the US corporation from where it will be sold at $10.00
each [ total lot $3500.00]..minus incidentals like sales ..freight..say
20%..that leaves the Corp with a net profit of $2800.00. The big key to
the whole equation is that for the guy in the third world country to
purchase ONE of what he has produced he has to work ONE COMPLETE DAY while
the pofits of Corporation X have gone up by 100%. That, simply put, is what
keeps us as hewers of wood and drawers of water.It is not lack of economic
acumen..crooked politicians or illiterate people that contine to keep us
where we are...It is a cruel and dehumanising system of economics that too
many gloss over without making an indepth analysis of same.

The 'I gain ..you lose' theory is so sound and entrenched that it has
actually become a norm in trade. Make a little incursion into NAFTA and
you'll better understand the theory. Yes , rich nations know how to create
wealth.. but poor nations or more appropriately, their leaders dare not
attempt to do same or..you know what ?..It's REGIME CHANGE.

Contrary to popular belief , small nations have little say with whom they
will do trade. F.Y.I it is the I.F.I [ World bank..IMF ] that call the
shots and are the invisible hands around the necks of the Third World.
That , my friend is THE NEW WORLD ORDER...Bienvenue ! This is the 21st
Century...and as Voltaire said: I may not agree with a word you say, but I
will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Quote Scott Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:12pm

Every point you made is valid.  I just don't see how its in the best interest of the U.S. to have a poor and violent Haiti.  Yes, there are a lot of people out there who are out to screw other people.  Too many of them in fact.

Its the third world leaders who have backed their country in the corner (often to their benefit I might add), just as its George Bush who got the U.S. stuck in Iraq.

I think that there are a lot of people out there screwing the third world over, but I don't think that there is a "world plan on keeping the third world poor."  That is where I disagree with you.

What I do think is happening is that there is a world plan to make third world countries prosperous, and it is corrupted and sidetracked by greedy people who are only looking out for themselves.

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Quote Scott Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:34pm

Also, do not confuse greedy businessmen and politicians with the average American, which is done frequently.  I know you just said you can distinguish the difference, but too many people can't.  The average American gets screwed over too, with almost a majority of their income going to taxes and shady business people .  The American people as a whole are a generous people.  Its the greedy ones that spoil the whole barrel of apples, and screw over Americans and foreigners equally.

And also, although your economic example is valid, it does miss the salaries that are paid to transporation workers, jobbers/wholesalers, warehouse workers, retail employees, etc. along the way.  It costs a lot of money to move the goods.  Not all of the markup goes into the business owner's pocket.  Much of it gets paid out to low to medium paid workers on the way.

Part of the problem is exchange rates.  If you look at how much a U.S. dollar can buy, you get a little different picture, although people in the first world are still better off than people in the third world, although not as much as some people claim.

In the U.S., if you consider the effect of taxes, a low wage worker in the U.S. has to work 1 to 2 hours to get one meal at a cheap restaurant (such as McDonalds).  That same worker has to work 3-6 hours to buy that pair of pants produced by a person in the third world.  Now that is not the same as having to work a whole day to afford it, but a low income American has to work almost a 1/2 a day to buy that same pair of pants.

While its true that people who earn more have to work less hours to get the same item, that is the same in third world countries as well.

The poor people in the third world are still getting the short end of the stick, but so are poor people everywhere.



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Quote Duck Sauce Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2005 at 7:12pm
If someone doesn't go in and restore order, who will?
"One person can make a difference, one person can change the world, but you must choose to do so. You must make the future or others will make it for you." -J. Michael Straczynski
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